diff --git a/qrenderdoc/Code/pyrenderdoc/PythonContext.cpp b/qrenderdoc/Code/pyrenderdoc/PythonContext.cpp
index 3f73beb50..c46f9edff 100644
--- a/qrenderdoc/Code/pyrenderdoc/PythonContext.cpp
+++ b/qrenderdoc/Code/pyrenderdoc/PythonContext.cpp
@@ -147,6 +147,7 @@ static PyMethodDef OutputRedirector_methods[] = {
 PyObject *PythonContext::main_dict = NULL;
 PyObject *PythonContext::m_DebugPy = NULL;
 PyObject *PythonContext::m_CallWrapper = NULL;
+PyObject *PythonContext::m_Reflector = NULL;
 PyObject *PythonContext::m_CallWrapperGlobals = NULL;
 PythonContext *PythonContext::m_ExtensionContext = NULL;
 QMap<rdcstr, PyObject *> PythonContext::extensions;
@@ -644,7 +645,11 @@ void PythonContext::GlobalInit(PersistantConfig &config)
   }
 #endif
 
+  // release GIL so that python work can now happen on any thread
+  PyEval_SaveThread();
+
   // load debugpy from installed vscode if we find it. This requires a minimum of python 3.8
+  std::function<void()> initDebugPy;
 #if PY_MAJOR_VERSION == 3 && PY_MINOR_VERSION >= 8
   if(config.Python_DebugEnabled)
   {
@@ -751,11 +756,9 @@ void PythonContext::GlobalInit(PersistantConfig &config)
       else
       {
         QObject *invokeObj = new QObject();
-        LambdaThread *thread = new LambdaThread([syspath, debugpy_path, invokeObj]() {
+        initDebugPy = [syspath, debugpy_path, invokeObj]() {
           qInfo() << "Importing debugpy from" << debugpy_path;
 
-          PyGILState_STATE gil = PyGILState_Ensure();
-
           PyObject *str = PyUnicode_FromString(debugpy_path.toUtf8().data());
 
           PyList_Append(syspath, str);
@@ -838,8 +841,6 @@ void PythonContext::GlobalInit(PersistantConfig &config)
 
           RemoveDebuggableThread();
 
-          PyGILState_Release(gil);
-
           if(m_DebugPy)
           {
             GUIInvoke::defer(invokeObj, [invokeObj]() {
@@ -889,18 +890,125 @@ except:
               invokeObj->deleteLater();
             });
           }
-        });
-
-        thread->setName(lit("Python debug initialisation"));
-        thread->selfDelete(true);
-        thread->start();
+        };
       }
     }
   }
 #endif
 
-  // release GIL so that python work can now happen on any thread
-  PyEval_SaveThread();
+  LambdaThread *thread = new LambdaThread([initDebugPy, sysobj]() {
+    PyGILState_STATE gil = PyGILState_Ensure();
+
+    if(initDebugPy)
+      initDebugPy();
+
+    {
+      QByteArray parse_reflection;
+      {
+        QFile file(lit(":/py/parse_reflection.py"));
+
+        file.open(QFile::ReadOnly);
+        parse_reflection = file.readAll();
+        file.close();
+      }
+
+      QString filename = lit("parse_reflection.py");
+      // in debug, to allow attaching with local builds, set the expected/typical real path to the py file
+#if !defined(RELEASE)
+      {
+        QDir dir(QApplication::applicationDirPath());
+        dir.cdUp();
+        dir.cdUp();
+        dir.cd(lit("qrenderdoc"));
+        dir.cd(lit("Code"));
+        dir.cd(lit("pyrenderdoc"));
+        filename = dir.absoluteFilePath(lit("parse_reflection.py"));
+      }
+#endif
+
+      PyObject *parse_compiled =
+          Py_CompileString(parse_reflection.data(), filename.toUtf8().data(), Py_file_input);
+      PyObject *parse_module = PyImport_ExecCodeModule("__rd_refl", parse_compiled);
+      Py_XDECREF(parse_compiled);
+
+      m_Reflector = PyObject_GetAttrString(parse_module, "PyReflector");
+      Py_XDECREF(parse_module);
+    }
+
+    if(m_Reflector)
+    {
+      bool found = false;
+      // take the first standard location that works, these should be in priority order
+      // and typically the first one is writeable as normal.
+      for(QString path : QStandardPaths::standardLocations(QStandardPaths::AppDataLocation))
+      {
+        QStringList paths = GetPystubsLocations(path + lit("/pystubs"));
+        if(paths.empty())
+          continue;
+
+        found = true;
+
+        QDir versioned_stubpath(paths[0]);
+        // move up to the parent path to ensure we can import without conflicting with the real module
+        versioned_stubpath.cdUp();
+
+        PyObject *syspath = PyObject_SafeGetAttrString(sysobj, "path");
+
+        PyObject *str = PyUnicode_FromString(versioned_stubpath.absolutePath().toUtf8().data());
+        PyList_Append(syspath, str);
+        Py_DecRef(str);
+
+        Py_XDECREF(syspath);
+
+        PyObject *stub_rd = PyImport_ImportModule(QFormatStr("v%1_%2.renderdoc")
+                                                      .arg(RENDERDOC_VERSION_MAJOR)
+                                                      .arg(RENDERDOC_VERSION_MINOR)
+                                                      .toUtf8()
+                                                      .data());
+
+        if(!stub_rd)
+        {
+          qCritical() << "Failed importing stubs for renderdoc";
+          HandleException(NULL);
+        }
+
+        PyObject *stub_qrd = PyImport_ImportModule(QFormatStr("v%1_%2.qrenderdoc")
+                                                       .arg(RENDERDOC_VERSION_MAJOR)
+                                                       .arg(RENDERDOC_VERSION_MINOR)
+                                                       .toUtf8()
+                                                       .data());
+
+        if(!stub_qrd)
+        {
+          qCritical() << "Failed importing stubs for qrenderdoc";
+          HandleException(NULL);
+        }
+
+        PyObject *alias_modules = PyObject_SafeGetAttrString(m_Reflector, "alias_modules");
+
+        if(stub_rd)
+          PyDict_SetItemString(alias_modules, "renderdoc", stub_rd);
+
+        if(stub_qrd)
+          PyDict_SetItemString(alias_modules, "qrenderdoc", stub_qrd);
+
+        Py_XDECREF(stub_rd);
+        Py_XDECREF(stub_qrd);
+        Py_XDECREF(alias_modules);
+
+        break;
+      }
+
+      if(!found)
+        qCritical() << "Couldn't find valid stubs path";
+    }
+
+    PyGILState_Release(gil);
+  });
+
+  thread->setName(lit("Python deferred initialisation"));
+  thread->selfDelete(true);
+  thread->start();
 
   // this will leak effectively
   m_ExtensionContext = new PythonContext(true, NULL);
diff --git a/qrenderdoc/Code/pyrenderdoc/PythonContext.h b/qrenderdoc/Code/pyrenderdoc/PythonContext.h
index deb0e06da..a735789ed 100644
--- a/qrenderdoc/Code/pyrenderdoc/PythonContext.h
+++ b/qrenderdoc/Code/pyrenderdoc/PythonContext.h
@@ -157,6 +157,9 @@ private:
   static PyObject *m_CallWrapper;
   static PyObject *m_CallWrapperGlobals;
 
+  // the PyReflector from parse_reflection
+  static PyObject *m_Reflector;
+
   // a statically created PythonContext for extension events/output.
   // each extension has its own dictionary but this is used so that users can connect to it and receieve events
   static PythonContext *m_ExtensionContext;
diff --git a/qrenderdoc/Resources/resources.qrc b/qrenderdoc/Resources/resources.qrc
index be0e57ef6..ab37e4872 100644
--- a/qrenderdoc/Resources/resources.qrc
+++ b/qrenderdoc/Resources/resources.qrc
@@ -1,6 +1,7 @@
 <RCC>
     <qresource prefix="/py">
         <file alias="stubgen.py">../../docs/stubgen.py</file>
+        <file alias="parse_reflection.py">../Code/pyrenderdoc/parse_reflection.py</file>
     </qresource>
     <qresource prefix="/">
         <file>logo.svg</file>
diff --git a/qrenderdoc/qrenderdoc_local.vcxproj b/qrenderdoc/qrenderdoc_local.vcxproj
index 24cd1ab9f..d5662faeb 100644
--- a/qrenderdoc/qrenderdoc_local.vcxproj
+++ b/qrenderdoc/qrenderdoc_local.vcxproj
@@ -1765,8 +1765,9 @@
     <None Include="Code\pyrenderdoc\pyconversion.h" />
     <None Include="Code\pyrenderdoc\pyconversion.i" />
     <None Include="Code\pyrenderdoc\cosmetics.i" />
+    <None Include="Code\pyrenderdoc\parse_reflection.py" />
     <CustomBuild Include="Resources\resources.qrc">
-      <AdditionalInputs>Resources\resources.qrc;$(QtBinDir)\rcc.exe;%(AdditionalInputs)</AdditionalInputs>
+      <AdditionalInputs>Resources\resources.qrc;Code\pyrenderdoc\parse_reflection.py;$(QtBinDir)\rcc.exe;%(AdditionalInputs)</AdditionalInputs>
       <Command>"$(QtBinDir)\rcc.exe" -name resources Resources\resources.qrc -o "$(IntDir)generated\qrc_resources.cpp"</Command>
       <Message>RCC resources.qrc</Message>
       <Outputs>$(IntDir)generated\qrc_resources.cpp</Outputs>
diff --git a/qrenderdoc/qrenderdoc_local.vcxproj.filters b/qrenderdoc/qrenderdoc_local.vcxproj.filters
index 896b1ccad..189e4de8d 100644
--- a/qrenderdoc/qrenderdoc_local.vcxproj.filters
+++ b/qrenderdoc/qrenderdoc_local.vcxproj.filters
@@ -1204,6 +1204,9 @@
     <None Include="Code\AppleUtils.mm">
       <Filter>Code</Filter>
     </None>
+    <None Include="Code\pyrenderdoc\parse_reflection.py">
+      <Filter>Code\pyrenderdoc</Filter>
+    </None>
   </ItemGroup>
   <ItemGroup>
     <ResourceCompile Include="Resources\qrenderdoc.rc">