diff --git a/renderdoc/core/resource_manager.h b/renderdoc/core/resource_manager.h
index c61bd1e50..0a0528267 100644
--- a/renderdoc/core/resource_manager.h
+++ b/renderdoc/core/resource_manager.h
@@ -428,9 +428,10 @@ class ResourceManager : public ResourceRecordHandler
 		virtual bool ResourceTypeRelease(WrappedResourceType res) = 0;
 
 		virtual bool Force_InitialState(WrappedResourceType res) = 0;
+		virtual bool AllowDeletedResource_InitialState() { return false; }
 		virtual bool Need_InitialStateChunk(WrappedResourceType res) = 0;
 		virtual bool Prepare_InitialState(WrappedResourceType res) = 0;
-		virtual bool Serialise_InitialState(WrappedResourceType res) = 0;
+		virtual bool Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId id, WrappedResourceType res) = 0;
 		virtual void Create_InitialState(ResourceId id, WrappedResourceType live, bool hasData) = 0;
 		virtual void Apply_InitialState(WrappedResourceType live, InitialContentData initial) = 0;
 
@@ -956,8 +957,11 @@ void ResourceManager<WrappedResourceType, RealResourceType, RecordType>::InsertI
 			skipped++;
 			continue;
 		}
+
+		WrappedResourceType res = (WrappedResourceType)RecordType::NullResource;
+		bool isAlive = HasCurrentResource(id);
 		
-		if(!HasCurrentResource(id))
+		if(!AllowDeletedResource_InitialState() && !isAlive)
 		{
 #if VERBOSE_DIRTY_RESOURCES
 			RDCDEBUG("Resource %llu no longer exists - skipping", id);
@@ -965,8 +969,10 @@ void ResourceManager<WrappedResourceType, RealResourceType, RecordType>::InsertI
 			continue;
 		}
 
+		if(isAlive)
+			res = GetCurrentResource(id);
+
 		RecordType *record = GetResourceRecord(id);
-		WrappedResourceType res = GetCurrentResource(id);
 
 		if(record == NULL)
 		{
@@ -993,7 +999,7 @@ void ResourceManager<WrappedResourceType, RealResourceType, RecordType>::InsertI
 		if(!Need_InitialStateChunk(res))
 		{
 			// just need to grab data, don't create chunk
-			Serialise_InitialState(res);
+			Serialise_InitialState(id, res);
 			continue;
 		}
 
@@ -1007,7 +1013,7 @@ void ResourceManager<WrappedResourceType, RealResourceType, RecordType>::InsertI
 		{
 			ScopedContext scope(m_pSerialiser, "Initial Contents", "Initial Contents", INITIAL_CONTENTS, false);
 
-			Serialise_InitialState(res);
+			Serialise_InitialState(id, res);
 
 			fileSerialiser->Insert(scope.Get(true));
 		}
@@ -1035,7 +1041,7 @@ void ResourceManager<WrappedResourceType, RealResourceType, RecordType>::InsertI
 			{
 				ScopedContext scope(m_pSerialiser, "Initial Contents", "Initial Contents", INITIAL_CONTENTS, false);
 
-				Serialise_InitialState(it->second);
+				Serialise_InitialState(it->first, it->second);
 
 				fileSerialiser->Insert(scope.Get(true));
 			}
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_device.cpp b/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_device.cpp
index 9ccc9abea..9da688da6 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_device.cpp
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_device.cpp
@@ -970,7 +970,7 @@ void WrappedID3D11Device::ProcessChunk(uint64_t offset, D3D11ChunkType context)
 	default:
 		// ignore system chunks
 		if(context == INITIAL_CONTENTS)
-			Serialise_InitialState(NULL);
+			Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId(), NULL);
 		else if(context < FIRST_CHUNK_ID)
 			m_pSerialiser->SkipCurrentChunk();
 		else
@@ -1321,7 +1321,7 @@ bool WrappedID3D11Device::Prepare_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *res)
 	return true;
 }
 
-bool WrappedID3D11Device::Serialise_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *res)
+bool WrappedID3D11Device::Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId resid, ID3D11DeviceChild *res)
 {
 	ResourceType type = Resource_Unknown;
 	ResourceId Id = ResourceId();
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_device.h b/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_device.h
index 471ec28f6..2b5711728 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_device.h
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_device.h
@@ -322,7 +322,7 @@ public:
 	// log replaying
 	
 	bool Prepare_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *res);
-	bool Serialise_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *res);
+	bool Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId resid, ID3D11DeviceChild *res);
 	void Create_InitialState(ResourceId id, ID3D11DeviceChild *live, bool hasData);
 	void Apply_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *live, D3D11ResourceManager::InitialContentData initial);
 
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_manager.cpp b/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_manager.cpp
index abe0d8b9b..a09d9351c 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_manager.cpp
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_manager.cpp
@@ -106,9 +106,9 @@ bool D3D11ResourceManager::Prepare_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *res)
 	return m_Device->Prepare_InitialState(res);
 }
 
-bool D3D11ResourceManager::Serialise_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *res)
+bool D3D11ResourceManager::Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId id, ID3D11DeviceChild *res)
 {
-	return m_Device->Serialise_InitialState(res);
+	return m_Device->Serialise_InitialState(id, res);
 }
 
 void D3D11ResourceManager::Create_InitialState(ResourceId id, ID3D11DeviceChild *live, bool hasData)
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_manager.h b/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_manager.h
index 6b9087fd6..c1d911061 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_manager.h
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/d3d11/d3d11_manager.h
@@ -196,7 +196,7 @@ class D3D11ResourceManager : public ResourceManager<ID3D11DeviceChild*, ID3D11De
 		bool Force_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *res);
 		bool Need_InitialStateChunk(ID3D11DeviceChild *res);
 		bool Prepare_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *res);
-		bool Serialise_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *res);
+		bool Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId resid, ID3D11DeviceChild *res);
 		void Create_InitialState(ResourceId id, ID3D11DeviceChild *live, bool hasData);
 		void Apply_InitialState(ID3D11DeviceChild *live, InitialContentData data);
 
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_driver.cpp b/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_driver.cpp
index 415a7b382..33306c5a3 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_driver.cpp
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_driver.cpp
@@ -3874,7 +3874,7 @@ void WrappedOpenGL::ProcessChunk(uint64_t offset, GLChunkType context)
 	default:
 		// ignore system chunks
 		if((int)context == (int)INITIAL_CONTENTS)
-			GetResourceManager()->Serialise_InitialState(GLResource(MakeNullResource));
+			GetResourceManager()->Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId(), GLResource(MakeNullResource));
 		else if((int)context < (int)FIRST_CHUNK_ID)
 			m_pSerialiser->SkipCurrentChunk();
 		else
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_manager.cpp b/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_manager.cpp
index 3710c72e3..69f838ee7 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_manager.cpp
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_manager.cpp
@@ -804,7 +804,7 @@ bool GLResourceManager::Force_InitialState(GLResource res)
 	return false;
 }
 
-bool GLResourceManager::Serialise_InitialState(GLResource res)
+bool GLResourceManager::Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId resid, GLResource res)
 {
 	ResourceId Id = ResourceId();
 
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_manager.h b/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_manager.h
index ad83fa6ea..732fa354e 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_manager.h
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/gl/gl_manager.h
@@ -221,7 +221,7 @@ class GLResourceManager : public ResourceManager<GLResource, GLResource, GLResou
 		void MarkFBOReferenced(GLResource res, FrameRefType ref);
 
 		bool Prepare_InitialState(GLResource res, byte *blob);
-		bool Serialise_InitialState(GLResource res);
+		bool Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId resid, GLResource res);
 
 	private:
 		bool SerialisableResource(ResourceId id, GLResourceRecord *record);
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_core.cpp b/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_core.cpp
index af0cfb24e..f1cbc6915 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_core.cpp
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_core.cpp
@@ -1796,7 +1796,7 @@ void WrappedVulkan::ProcessChunk(uint64_t offset, VulkanChunkType context)
 	default:
 		// ignore system chunks
 		if((int)context == (int)INITIAL_CONTENTS)
-			Serialise_InitialState(NULL);
+			Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId(), NULL);
 		else if((int)context < (int)FIRST_CHUNK_ID)
 			m_pSerialiser->SkipCurrentChunk();
 		else
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_core.h b/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_core.h
index 1212d46a8..1a8bbe97f 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_core.h
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_core.h
@@ -462,8 +462,8 @@ private:
 
 	bool Prepare_SparseInitialState(WrappedVkBuffer *buf);
 	bool Prepare_SparseInitialState(WrappedVkImage *im);
-	bool Serialise_SparseInitialState(ResourceId id, WrappedVkBuffer *buf, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData contents);
-	bool Serialise_SparseInitialState(ResourceId id, WrappedVkImage *im, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData contents);
+	bool Serialise_SparseBufferInitialState(ResourceId id, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData contents);
+	bool Serialise_SparseImageInitialState(ResourceId id, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData contents);
 	bool Apply_SparseInitialState(WrappedVkBuffer *buf, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData contents);
 	bool Apply_SparseInitialState(WrappedVkImage *im, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData contents);
 
@@ -539,7 +539,7 @@ public:
 	
 	// replay interface
 	bool Prepare_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res);
-	bool Serialise_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res);
+	bool Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId resid, WrappedVkRes *res);
 	void Create_InitialState(ResourceId id, WrappedVkRes *live, bool hasData);
 	void Apply_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *live, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData initial);
 
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_initstate.cpp b/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_initstate.cpp
index 905199312..2bc30306e 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_initstate.cpp
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_initstate.cpp
@@ -377,7 +377,7 @@ bool WrappedVulkan::Prepare_SparseInitialState(WrappedVkImage *im)
 	return true;
 }
 
-bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_SparseInitialState(ResourceId id, WrappedVkBuffer *buf, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData contents)
+bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_SparseBufferInitialState(ResourceId id, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData contents)
 {
 	if(m_State >= WRITING)
 	{
@@ -502,7 +502,7 @@ bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_SparseInitialState(ResourceId id, WrappedVkBuffer
 	return true;
 }
 
-bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_SparseInitialState(ResourceId id, WrappedVkImage *im, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData contents)
+bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_SparseImageInitialState(ResourceId id, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData contents)
 {
 	if(m_State >= WRITING)
 	{
@@ -1201,15 +1201,20 @@ bool WrappedVulkan::Prepare_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res)
 	return false;
 }
 
-bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res)
+// second parameter isn't used, as we might be serialising init state for a deleted resource
+bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId resid, WrappedVkRes *)
 {
 	// use same serialiser as resource manager
 	Serialiser *localSerialiser = GetMainSerialiser();
+	
+	VkResourceRecord *record = NULL;
+	if(m_State >= WRITING)
+		record = GetResourceManager()->GetResourceRecord(resid);
 
-	SERIALISE_ELEMENT(VkResourceType, type, IdentifyTypeByPtr(res));
-	SERIALISE_ELEMENT(ResourceId, id, GetResourceManager()->GetID(res));
-
-	if(m_State < WRITING) res = GetResourceManager()->GetLiveResource(id);
+	// use the record's resource, not the one passed in, because the passed in one
+	// might be null if it was deleted
+	SERIALISE_ELEMENT(VkResourceType, type, IdentifyTypeByPtr(record->Resource));
+	SERIALISE_ELEMENT(ResourceId, id, resid);
 	
 	if(m_State >= WRITING)
 	{
@@ -1217,7 +1222,6 @@ bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res)
 
 		if(type == eResDescriptorSet)
 		{
-			VkResourceRecord *record = GetResourceManager()->GetResourceRecord(id);
 			RDCASSERT(record->descInfo && record->descInfo->layout);
 			const DescSetLayout &layout = *record->descInfo->layout;
 
@@ -1231,7 +1235,7 @@ bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res)
 		}
 		else if(type == eResBuffer)
 		{
-			return Serialise_SparseInitialState(id, (WrappedVkBuffer *)res, initContents);
+			return Serialise_SparseBufferInitialState(id, initContents);
 		}
 		else if(type == eResDeviceMemory || type == eResImage)
 		{
@@ -1245,7 +1249,7 @@ bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res)
 			{
 				// contains page mapping
 				RDCASSERT(type == eResImage);
-				return Serialise_SparseInitialState(id, (WrappedVkImage *)res, initContents);
+				return Serialise_SparseImageInitialState(id, initContents);
 			}
 			
 			byte *ptr = NULL;
@@ -1265,6 +1269,8 @@ bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res)
 	}
 	else
 	{
+		WrappedVkRes *res = GetResourceManager()->GetLiveResource(id);
+	
 		RDCASSERT(res != NULL);
 
 		ResourceId liveid = GetResourceManager()->GetLiveID(id);
@@ -1417,7 +1423,7 @@ bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res)
 		}
 		else if(type == eResBuffer)
 		{
-			return Serialise_SparseInitialState(id, (WrappedVkBuffer *)NULL, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData());
+			return Serialise_SparseBufferInitialState(id, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData());
 		}
 		else if(type == eResImage)
 		{
@@ -1426,7 +1432,7 @@ bool WrappedVulkan::Serialise_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res)
 
 			if(isSparse)
 			{
-				return Serialise_SparseInitialState(id, (WrappedVkImage *)NULL, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData());
+				return Serialise_SparseImageInitialState(id, VulkanResourceManager::InitialContentData());
 			}
 
 			uint32_t dataSize = 0;
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_manager.cpp b/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_manager.cpp
index b3a8edda5..d11865609 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_manager.cpp
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_manager.cpp
@@ -489,9 +489,9 @@ bool VulkanResourceManager::Prepare_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res)
 	return m_Core->Prepare_InitialState(res);
 }
 
-bool VulkanResourceManager::Serialise_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res)
+bool VulkanResourceManager::Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId resid, WrappedVkRes *res)
 {
-	return m_Core->Serialise_InitialState(res);
+	return m_Core->Serialise_InitialState(resid, res);
 }
 
 void VulkanResourceManager::Create_InitialState(ResourceId id, WrappedVkRes *live, bool hasData)
diff --git a/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_manager.h b/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_manager.h
index 7ab1374e1..1c459dc6c 100644
--- a/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_manager.h
+++ b/renderdoc/driver/vulkan/vk_manager.h
@@ -244,9 +244,10 @@ class VulkanResourceManager : public ResourceManager<WrappedVkRes*, TypedRealHan
 		bool ResourceTypeRelease(WrappedVkRes *res);
 
 		bool Force_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res);
+		bool AllowDeletedResource_InitialState() { return true; }
 		bool Need_InitialStateChunk(WrappedVkRes *res);
 		bool Prepare_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res);
-		bool Serialise_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *res);
+		bool Serialise_InitialState(ResourceId resid, WrappedVkRes *res);
 		void Create_InitialState(ResourceId id, WrappedVkRes *live, bool hasData);
 		void Apply_InitialState(WrappedVkRes *live, InitialContentData initial);